[rick]

Many of you may have seen the "Holy double-espresso, Batman" announcement" at Javalobby regarding the abrupt changes we deployed on Thursday, Jan. 24th.

Please use this thread to continue replies from the discussion that started there, and feel free to start new forum threads on more specific topics, if you wish. All feedback, both positive and negative, is welcomed and encouraged. We all share a common interest in having Javalobby continue to be a useful resource to the Java developer community.

Please remember, the forum rule here is "Be nice." (Thank you, JavaRanch!)

[matt]

For those of you that would like to view the old content, you can still get to it at the old url of: http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/c5601.html

Those forums have been closed for posting new threads, so forum type content goes into the new DZone Forums and story content goes into the new Javalobby system at http://java.dzone.com.

Remember, there is a distinction in the network now between forums, blog aggregator (dzone.com/links), and story content, whereas the old system was mostly just forums (even though it may have seemed like story content ). We're happy to answer any questions and value any feedback.

[mende]

Hmmm... I'm not really happy with the new javalobby. I've tried to give her some days to impress me but there is too much missing:

The 'new' announcements of new soft at the upper right corner.
The 3 'top'-stories/articles
A great overview of the last few discussions

All I got is a new blog aggregator. That's not my javalobby anymore.

Sorry, but the merge with the dzone-layout wasn't a great idea.

Marc

[rjackson]

Well I've given it a few days and I still don't like it.

Quote:
We aren't finished, but basically got into a soft-launch by circumstance

I feel for your situation but at the same time I don't necessarily have the time to wait for you to figure it out and fix it. Like some one else said this should have been put up as a alternative that could be used if one wanted while you figured it out leaving the old and better site in place while you worked the kinks out.

Quote:
We are very open-minded people and will listen to all input

Yes you have listened to and responded to the input by moving the discussion off the front page into another incomplete and semi functional form system that most people will not even bother to look at. Much less go through the hassle of having to login again just so they can post a reply. (Yes I do care so I did go through the hassle but I most likely will not again)

Quote:
There's no reason it has to be "one size fits all", so multiple UIs are possible

Good then give us the option to use the old system. Or better yet you should have made the new system the option and left the old in place.

Quote:
A "one strike, you're out!" policy won't make for an interesting game

Live by internet time die by internet time. Sorry but with so many options available for getting the content I want there is no need for me to hang around while you figure it out. ( Not trying to be mean or rude but that is the way it is and if you don't know it you should ) Don't get me wrong I will be back but JL is now off my visit every day list and on my when I have time list which means on the weekend when I have time.

Quote:
Be nice

We are being nice. In a since it was JL that was not being nice by not giving us any warning that this was going to happen. I do remember a few months ago when this idea was first brought up and you had a demo site that we could look at so you could get feed back that is how this should have been done. But then again the feed back you got on that first demo was mostly negative as well. When I look at this new JL and what I remember of that original demo I wonder if what I'm seeing today is that demo made real because from what I remember this new site is similar in design.

Anyways Like I said I will be back if for no other reason than JL even the new one has some content I like to read but for now JL is no longer the first site I will visit nor will it be the site I visit the most often. And who knows after you get all the changes in you may become the first site again as long as I have not found something else by that time.

[atripp]

A follow-up thread to a javalobby front-page post about the new look of javalobby, and the thread is over here in dzone, where I had to login again???

These would be my priorities:
1) Put back the javalobby.org url
2) Replace the currently pinned article with a new one, with a good title like "About the new Javalobby look". Explain what's changed and why, what's missing and broken, how to set up preferences, etc.
3) Get rid of all the face pictures, the zone leaders, the pictures on the right, and my own picture
4)Move the Javalobby logo to the top and make it stand out compared to the ads.
5) Fix the most glaring bugs if you haven't already: messed up ids, missing sigs, missing old content

I really have serious doubts about this whole change, obviously.

[ahristov314]

I agree with most of the concerns raised here. Javalobby was primarily about a community that gathered to discuss about stories, general posts, reviews, ideas and what not. Instead of focusing and enhancing the primary source of success, JL has gone the "yet another blog" way, with a clumsy forum. JL was one of my top destinations, but now I feel that something has been lost.

I'll stick for some time to see if things improve, but it seems to me that JL just suicided itself (in a way that also hasn't been very original, as many other lemmings have jumped this very same cliff)

[whartung]

I'm with Andy (and I only know it's Andy because I recognize atripp). "Junior Member" I have to laugh at that.

If you're going to close comments and punt us over to a completely different section (clearly an UltimateBB board), then you should at least provide a link is something more conspicuous than the 3 or 4th post from the end (depending on your view). Edit the topic or something.

And why isn't that topic appropriate for this? Why were we routed over here out of sight out of mind? How is that topic and comments any different from this topic and comments save that we're no longer on the front page?

But this isn't about a as much a format change as it is about the, I feel, destruction of the JL community. We just got borged in to a pretty faceless (did I really say faceless?) conglomerate.

You'll recall the considerable friction that you all received whenever you tried to merge and cross post EclipseZone things with JavaLobby, and I think those concerns were valid and appropriate. They were two completely different communities with different goals and drivers, and particularly different personalities.

JL was as inviting and inclusive as any other group, but cross posting just didn't suit us. But we were never hostile to new folks, and we certainly knew who each other were in general.

But now, we've found coming here not that our favorite coffee house hasn't been simply repainted, rather it's been turned in to a DZoneMart with a JavaLobbyStarbucks stuck in a corner with all the charm that bare fluorescent tube lighting can bring. We can't even recognize each other! Like when Serge posted about his ID (and ideally he's changed it to something reasonable beyond sb1234 like when you did it for me -- assuming he's even still here).

The real problem is that to keep the community together, you expect us to have the patience to watch you churn through your transition. And it seems rather presumptive that we have that patience, to critique and "improve" the site that we pretty much didn't feel was broken. Many folks (I'm one who's tempted) will simply leave and maybe come back in a few months to see what happened. But when we go, obviously we can't provide on going feedback, so it's almost guaranteed that when we come back we most likely won't like what we see...so, why bother? Why invest the time and effort? Just make a clean break and find someplace new.

To use a gaming term: You one-shotted the JL community IMHO. I don't know how the other veterans feel about it. All we see posted are the negative sides mostly. Maybe those tickled with it are just quiet. But it's severe shock. There's no continuity, none of the content got transferred over, nobody can recognize each other, and everything is different at a fundamental level. To quote an old MST3K movie "Worst prisoner transfer since Dallas '63".

[rick]

Originally Posted by whartung

If you're going to close comments and punt us over to a completely different section (clearly an UltimateBB board), then you should at least provide a link is something more conspicuous than the 3 or 4th post from the end (depending on your view). Edit the topic or something.

Agreed - I will fix that. Thanks.

Originally Posted by whartung

And why isn't that topic appropriate for this? Why were we routed over here out of sight out of mind? How is that topic and comments any different from this topic and comments save that we're no longer on the front page?

I'm afraid we'll disappoint on the conspiracy theory front. The simple reason to move to forums is to provide separate threads to have intelligent conversation about the multiple, significant issues that are emerging. It may feel consolidated to have them all in one big spaghetti mess, but it won't help us zero in on specific problems and solutions. Forums with dedicated threads for specific topics are better for that.

Originally Posted by whartung

But this isn't about a as much a format change as it is about the, I feel, destruction of the JL community. We just got borged in to a pretty faceless (did I really say faceless?) conglomerate.

Will, you know that Matt and I both care about the health of this community, and we have nurtured it through good times and bad for many years. We're not going to destroy it, and fear of change is the most natural of human reactions. Did you really say faceless conglomerate?

Originally Posted by whartung

But now, we've found coming here not that our favorite coffee house hasn't been simply repainted, rather it's been turned in to a DZoneMart with a JavaLobbyStarbucks stuck in a corner with all the charm that bare fluorescent tube lighting can bring. We can't even recognize each other! Like when Serge posted about his ID (and ideally he's changed it to something reasonable beyond sb1234 like when you did it for me -- assuming he's even still here).

OK, the coffee house idea connects with me, and I can relate to what you mean. Trust me when I tell you I hate how it looks now, but under the skin it is better AND the content is better than it has been for years. We'll get the crappy styling and lack of presentation structure addressed quickly, and you're here in the right place to participate in active discussions to help get it suited to your specific preferences.

And Serge's userID has been that way for years, since our last major transition (which also caused turmoil!) But, just like we did for you, we will fix his and anyone else's to make it better suited to the identity they want to present. We do, at the end of the day, aim to please.

Originally Posted by whartung

The real problem is that to keep the community together, you expect us to have the patience to watch you churn through your transition. And it seems rather presumptive that we have that patience, to critique and "improve" the site that we pretty much didn't feel was broken. Many folks (I'm one who's tempted) will simply leave and maybe come back in a few months to see what happened. But when we go, obviously we can't provide on going feedback, so it's almost guaranteed that when we come back we most likely won't like what we see...so, why bother? Why invest the time and effort? Just make a clean break and find someplace new.

To use a gaming term: You one-shotted the JL community IMHO. I don't know how the other veterans feel about it. All we see posted are the negative sides mostly. Maybe those tickled with it are just quiet. But it's severe shock. There's no continuity, none of the content got transferred over, nobody can recognize each other, and everything is different at a fundamental level. To quote an old MST3K movie "Worst prisoner transfer since Dallas '63".

As an expression of sincere feeling, this reaches both Matt and me at a deep level. We don't want you to be so upset, and I hope you won't be for long. I'll cross my fingers and hope that you continue your longstanding history of contributing regularly , and that you'll participate when you can in discussions about how to make things the best they can be.

We may not be completely out of our minds, Will. Matt and I see a place we feel this community needs to go, and we believe we are in the course of taking it there. Some will come with us, some new people will find us, and some will decide they're through. You've analyzed the issue cogently above, so you don't need me to lay it out. I have a lot of work to do.

Thank you for these many thoughtful ideas. I do very much appreciate them.

Rick

[rick]

Originally Posted by atripp

1) Put back the javalobby.org url

I understand, Andy, but it isn't going to happen. JL is part of DZone, and DZone is a business. We're small compared to our competitors, anyway, and we need to keep all the wood behind one arrow.

2) Replace the currently pinned article with a new one, with a good title like "About the new Javalobby look". Explain what's changed and why, what's missing and broken, how to set up preferences, etc.

Probably a good suggestion. We could help others through the shock more gently.

3) Get rid of all the face pictures, the zone leaders, the pictures on the right, and my own picture

I opened another thread to discuss avatars over here.

4)Move the Javalobby logo to the top and make it stand out compared to the ads.

I think we're doing this tomorrow (Monday) and simply removing those ads from the top, so we can use the space below the menu bar to restore the "featured content" items we had in the old look. I don't like the square ads up top, even if you CAN turn them off!

5) Fix the most glaring bugs if you haven't already: messed up ids, missing sigs, missing old content

We're working our tails off - you already know that.

[spand]

Hi,

Id just like to say that its good to see some change.. and would like to share my first 5 min. impression.

First, I had a problem finding the "threaded view" option.. I recall it was in the options on javalobby, perhaps it should be here aswell?

The front page is a bit confusing. What are the 3 top news/items? And the ones below it. On the old design I belive there was a "articles" (the ones that could be sponsored), tips and tricks, and news. So a headline of the sections would be nice.

Also, I am missing the announcements box. Hope you will bring it back in some form.

And lastly, even though the forum is in php I reckon it should be possible to log me in automaticly. I found it a bit confusing that I had to use my email to login on the new javalobby, but username on the forums.

Good luck. I am looking forward to the new (and more polished) javalobby

(bring back the javalobby smilies ! )